This was sent to the Premier of Ontario Dalton McGuinty, the Minister of Community and Social Services Madeleine Meilleur, Hamilton Mayor Fred Eisenberger and Hamilton city councilor Bernie Morelli, via e-mail on Feb 24 08.
My question to you and to myself is how do they get away with the callous and unjust manner that workers approach their clients with, at Ontario Works, ODSP and even the Social Benefits Tribunal?
The answer is very simple. BECAUSE THEY CAN
For the record I would like to state, I have seen many improvements to the SBT since a change of it’s Chair and I expect to see many more. I can’t say the same for Ontario Works and ODSP.
The research shows when clients have contact with workers the response is not always the same. You could ask three different workers the same question and receive three different answers.
If the worker doesn't especially like you, they will simply ignore you. This means things like no return phone calls, ignoring verbal requests for benefits, requesting more than usual documents be brought in to prove eligibility and so on.
If the worker really doesn't like you, they will often do everything in their power to harass, intimidate and frustrate you into giving up and going away. This means things like ignoring written requests for benefits, telling you that the benefit doesn’t exist, denying benefits when you are entitled and no decision letters and so on.
If the worker does like you, they will give you any of the benefits that you ask for if you entitled. This is only if the worker is aware of the benefits requested. Here is an interesting problem. The vast majority of the workers are not aware of benefits that are available. This even includes some of the excellent workers. Another problem is that the fast majority of clients don’t even know what the benefits are.
******** All clients must document, tape record and video record everything, every time when dealing with any OW or ODSP staff. ********
The governments must, as a gesture of good will, give all Ontario Works and ODSP clients a written copy of the benefits that they say clients are entitled.
This would be a first concrete step taken to start the process in eliminating poverty.
The only real remedy to this problem is for clients to sue their respective governments. For Ontario Works it would be their local municipal government and the Province of Ontario and for ODSP it would be the Province of Ontario.
In the Ontario Works Act it states No personal liability
77.(1)No action or other proceeding in damages shall be instituted against the Ministry, the Director, a delivery agent, an officer or employee of any of them or anyone acting under their authority for any act done in good faith in the execution or intended execution of a duty or authority under this Act or for any alleged neglect or default in the execution in good faith of any duty or authority under this Act.
In the Ontario Disability Support Program it states No personal liability
58. (1) No action or other proceeding in damages shall be instituted against the Ministry, the Director or a delivery agent, an officer, employee of any of them or anyone acting under their authority for any act done in good faith in the execution or intended execution of a duty or authority under this Act or for any alleged neglect or default in the execution in good faith of any duty or authority under this Act. 1997, c. 25, Sched. B, s. 58 (1).
This means that a client could sue for damages if bad faith could be proven.
It is called bad faith; a person who intentionally tries to deceive or mislead another in order to gain some advantage.
It is called willful blindness or willful deceit.
The government must get rid of the discretionary powers it allows workers in the OW and OSSP, Act, Regulations and Directives.
You’re either entitled to benefits or your not. It is extremely simple but the government will not do it until it gets sued for Bad Faith.
It’s so simple; all the government has to do is to look at how the federal government implements its Employment Insurance application process, and they are saving millions.
To receive benefits you must go online to apply, with exceptions for some disabled clients. You fill out a simple template and the next thing you experience is a cheque in the mail. If the federal government trusts us why can’t you?
Ron Payne Welfare Legal Hamilton, Ontario. E-mail Ron Payne
I totally agree with Ron on this, you can ask three different workers and get 3 different answers and three different personal responces.
I find that my worker makes me go through too much collecting of doctors signatures to get what I need.
Disabled people by the very definition of a disability have enough anxiety in their lives without having to jump through hoops for a simple request.
Going to 2 or 3 different Doctors to get the help one needs has to be costing the province way more than it needs to. Are we really that untrustworthy?
I'm tired of being held up and usually give up, which I'm sure is exactly what they want.
Ontario Works/ ODSP by: Anonymous
New links for the Ontario Works / ODSP policy directives.
Ontario Disability Support Program ODSP Income Support Policy Directives ODSP Employment Supports Policy Directives
Ron Payne Welfare Legal Hamilton, Ontario Email welfarelegal2004(at)hotmail(dot)com welfarelegal2004@hotmail.com Blog http://welfarelegal.blogspot.com/
ODSP failure to provide eye glasses! by: Anonymous
Every year I have to bang my head on the walls just to get my husband's and 2 son's eye glasses approved by ODSP.
Every year I send in the prescriptions and written cost estamites from the eye glass company telling exactly how much they will cost and every year O.D.S.P fills out the form incorrectly.
They know they have to put the total cost they are covering for the them to be covered but they always just put frames and lenses as prescribed! Thats WRONG!
No company will deal with welfare or o.d.s.p. recipiants anymore because they refuse to pay the full cost of the glasses.
So how am I suppose to pay the full price of the glasses for 3 people totalling 1,000 per year?
About blood pressure monitors and the rules of ODSP by: Anonymous
I have uncontrolled blood pressure and was told by specialist to get the 24 hr blood pressure monitor which was a cost of $65. I was also advised that if they did not get a 24 hr cancellation notice then i would still have to pay the fee.
I sent in numerous requests to the ODSP worker and finally the day I was driving into the driveway of the specialist I was called on the cell phone to say it was not covered. This meant i would still be responsible for paying the fee whether or not i got the monitor.
I have always been told by Ont. Works and OPSP not to miss appts and to always return their calls immediately so why dont they have to return the same service back to their clients?
Great system how ever! by: Anonymous
Well let me say the poor are always getting ripped off, even for benifits, they get ripped off by a 3 tier system, under the table and over the table and by labor contract.
We the poor are subjected to poverty, and labor exploits, even by the big corporations, these powers know only money and every way to steal it from the poor, from the system as a whole, and no one can do anything about it!
Now lets talk health care - billions are sucked out in a blink of an eye, and they get richer by the minute, and what do we the poor get more taxes, bull education systems, and general welfare healthcare who really dont care they just want to see how many pills you will subject yourself too, and you lose, and then you lose your life to some mix of toxic drugs, generic.
Hummm, what else can we subject the poor to, high interest rates, high gas rates, high food prices, high labour healthcare costs, milk it milk it, we really love North America, suck them for all their worth, humm what are you gonna do, protest, how about take legal action, humm, municipal corporate scheme's!
Ontario Works by: Donna Simoncini
I completely agree with Ron`s comments! I am against any type of exploitation of the vulnerable who find themselves under the thumb of a RUTHLESS, POWER HUNGRY system.
Workers treating people different by: Anonymous
I completely agree that if workers don't like you they will do exactly as you had described. I remember being 16 yes old and had no home to go to and no job yet. I needed to rely on gwa to survive. Other ppl would tell me about all beset benefits but my worker just treated me badly or told me I was ineligable for things or plain ignored me. When I got q new worker things were definately much different. I do agree that nowadays workers are much more aware of benefits etc and I don't hear about differential treatment nowadays
past ODSP worker gives advice by: Anonymous
Let me tell you, from having worked behind the scenes at the ODSP office- Many of their workers are jaded and prejudice. I left because I couldn't stand the terminology used to refer to clients and the racist remarks made by some workers. A serious Values clash and when I tried to say something about it- I ended up with a huge target on my back!!
I truly enjoyed my job and enjoyed my clients- I returned my phone calls and tried to maximize benefits. I found the loop-holes and helped clients gain access... I can't say the same for my previous colleagues.
Do not let anyone dehumanize you- do not let them refuse to pay for glasses/ contact lenses! Yes! Lenses! Their directives are posted online, Google the terms "OW Directives" or "ODSP Directives" and you will be able to check your own entitlements and create requests while making reference to the exact directive. This way your request can't be refused. Go to managers @ ODSP! Don't be afraid!
Your community start up is available MORE than 1x/12months- it's called an "exceptional circumstance CSUMB". They can hassle you and give you a hard time- but when I was ODSP (2009) new directives came through indicating we could NOT refuse an expceptional circumstance request! Access your benefits to the maximum!!
Don't EVER let a worker QUESTION your disability- we don't have access to that info. believe it or not- unless you have a physical disability requiring accomodation, so your disability is YOUR SECRET from your worker! YOU DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE! It's on a file somewhere- just not accessible to your worker. You passed all of the required tests to be considered disabled enough to be on the system- don't let a worker question you about it!!
good ODSP service,on the whole by: Anonymous
I have had good service from my ODSP woker on most counts,the one that I needed the most help was a rather hard sell.
I had had two strokes while visiting my father,I landed in hospital about 6 hours from my home. The doctors said I was in no shape to return other than by air.
My wife called the ODSP offices and was told to drive down and pick me up (was not the worker I used most time)My normal worker was at last contected and she came through as always,I was flown back to my home town.
I had reason to contact ODSP once again and I asked for this case worker and told that you take who you get. I'm not one to back off and later repeated calls was put through to my caseworker who is to soon retire,she again went to bat for me.
As far as ODSP on the whole,I think it would have been better for them (cheaper) had I died. The bad workers are many, the good ones are very few.
